tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post1068876263585129469..comments2023-10-26T10:45:36.132-07:00Comments on Trinity Notes: The Purpose of This BlogANNOYED PINOYhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-62409533188979559152022-05-20T14:58:53.845-07:002022-05-20T14:58:53.845-07:00See a bit more in my blogpost here:
The Wings of C...See a bit more in my blogpost here:<br /><a href="https://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-wings-of-christ-are-gods-wings.html" rel="nofollow">The Wings of Christ Are God's Wings</a><br /><br />Also, it's not merely about what words are used, but <i>how</i> they are used; in what cultural and Biblical contexts. Jesus' use is in keeping with the common Semitic <b><i>way</i></b> that was used to describe gods (both pagan gods and the God of Israel). As well as in keeping with how the Old Testament described Yahweh. See for example Chris Date's comments in this debate here (already cued up): <a href="https://youtu.be/c35_uFjEbx8?t=3208" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/c35_uFjEbx8?t=3208</a>ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-26210438702944101342022-05-19T10:40:46.802-07:002022-05-19T10:40:46.802-07:00One of the strongest arguments I find for Christ&#...One of the strongest arguments I find for Christ's self-identification as deity is the passage in Matthew about Christ gathering under his wings. However, a unitarian said that while Ruth 2:12 is often quoted to show YHWH's wings, Ruth 3:9 shows that Boaz had wings/garmet (word is apparently the same just one is plural). Do you have any more info on if that defeats the argument? Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18007580091869768426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-25885834204647973612021-11-01T13:40:33.339-07:002021-11-01T13:40:33.339-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Godhead Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08631666162342853338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-968074105090805072020-08-12T12:41:24.402-07:002020-08-12T12:41:24.402-07:00//...Same with being Lord of the Sabbath.//
Actua...//<i>...Same with being Lord of the Sabbath.</i>//<br /><br />Actually, this highlights Jesus' Divinity. The Greek word for "lord" used there is, I believe, the same used to translate the Hebrew tetragrammaton [YHWH or YHVH]. Jesus is alluding to His being Yehovah/Yahweh, in a way that wouldn't necessarily be caught by His immediate listeners, but which would be caught by later reflection by the Gospel authors and conveyed to their readers. Keep browsing through my blogposts in this <a href="https://trinitynotes.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">BLOG</a> and the links I've given and many of your concerns will be addressed and answered.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-4343706328567045012020-08-12T12:40:43.017-07:002020-08-12T12:40:43.017-07:00See this excellent video by Mike Licona:
Did Jesu...<b>See this excellent video by Mike Licona:<br /><br />Did Jesus Claim to Be God? <br /><a href="https://youtu.be/gT2TN6kA5kY" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/gT2TN6kA5kY</a></b><br /><br />//<i>Particularly he believes that Jesus believed Himself to be a pre-existent divine being that the Father (YHWH) abdicated Lordship to.</i>//<br /><br />According to his book <i>How Jesus Became God</i>, Ehrman has proposed different and converging causes as to early belief in Jesus' divinity. See the response book that came out at the same time with the reverse title, <i>How God Became Jesus</i> edited by Michael Bird with contributions by other scholars. It's an excellent book I had to underline many times because it's chock-full of info.<br /><br />//<i>For example defending the idea that God can only forgive sins, BUT Jesus was given this authority as a Elohim (created disembodied spiritual being). Same with being Lord of the Sabbath.</i>//<br /><br />Jesus is both divine and human. As the human messiah, He's given authority by the Father. As divine, He has it intrinsically. On account of the incarnation, and from the perspective of creation, He temporarily laid down His divine prerogatives in order to take them back after purchasing redemption via His death, resurrection, ascension to heaven and exaltation to the right hand of God the Father. That He was God prior to His incarnation and descended to earth is taught in Phil. 2:6ff; Rom. 9:5; Dan. 7:13-14; Him being the Angel of YHVH [see Anthony Rogers' videos I've linked to in this blog] etc. BTW, Eph. 4:9-10 has traditionally been interpreted to refer to the lower parts of the earth [i.e. the realm of the dead], but some commentators argue that it refers to Jesus descent not from earth to the underworld, but from heaven to earth [cf. Rom. 10:6-7].<br /><br />Jesus forgiving sins was delegated to Him from the Father in a way different than how He delegated it to the Apostles [John 20:23]. The Apostles could do it as creatures, Jesus did it as Creator [see the arguments for Jesus being Creator. E.g. John 1:1ff. 1 Cor. 8:6ff.; Col. 1:19ff. etc.]. Jesus did it as the Divine-Human messiah. The OT teaches only God will judge the world, and therefore Jesus is God [<a href="https://youtu.be/sS-lLTfCI7c" rel="nofollow">see this video by David Wood</a>]. There are different kinds of subordination. There's 1. ontological subordination, 2. functional subordination, and 3. incarnational subordination. The ontological subordination of the Son is NOT consistent with the Trinity, but the functional and incarnational ARE consistent with the Trinity. Some Trinitarians reject pre-incarnational functional subordination of the Son. While other Trinitarians affirm it. It was a controversy that especially sparked among Calvinists about 5 years ago. I myself lean toward [but not dogmatic on] pre-incarnational subordination. Also known as Eternal Subordination of the Son [ESS], or Eternal Functional Subordination [EFS], or Eternal Relations of Authority and Submission [ERAS]. That's because I also lean toward [but not dogmatic on] the Son's eternal generation/filiation, and the Spirit's eternal procession/spiration. If ERAS is true, then it's especially non-problematic that Jesus received the power of forgiveness from the Father. But incarnational subordination is sufficient to solve the problem if one wants to affirm the least amount of subordination of the Son to the Father. Also, Jesus sometimes forgave sin as if it were an offense to Him [as if He were God].<br /><br />CONTINUEDANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-84623232146758607062020-08-12T12:35:29.852-07:002020-08-12T12:35:29.852-07:00I have watched a number of Heiser's videos, an...I have watched a number of Heiser's videos, and read his book <i>Supernatural</i> which is a summary and introduction to his book <i>The Unseen Realm</i> [which I'm also currently reading]. I'm in general agreement with much of what Heiser says. Though, I'm not dogmatic about the particulars. Even he doesn't see how the concept of the divine council undermines Trinitarianism. Since he's a Trinitarian himself. BTW, I've linked to some of his videos on this Blog. Being a Calvinist, I obviously disagree with Heiser's lower view of predestination and providence which shines through in his books on the divine council and God's program of advancing His kingdom family. But that's fine. I get along with and greatly benefit from my non-Calvinist fellow Evangelicals.<br /><br />//<i>The question mostly stemming from the self-identity of Jesus in the Synoptic Gospels.</i>//<br /><br />See the following blogs<br />Transcript and commentary: The "I am" statements, again by Lydia McGrew<br />http://lydiaswebpage.blogspot.com/2018/03/transcript-and-commentary-i-am.html<br /><br />Are the "I am" statements authentic? by Steve Hays<br />https://triablogue.blogspot.com/2018/03/are-i-am-statements-authentic.html<br /><br />Why Don't the Synoptics Have Jesus Claiming to be the "I Am"? <br />https://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2018/03/why-dont-synoptics-have-jesus-claiming.html<br /><br />The Meaning of the Term "Son of Man" <br />https://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2014/05/the-meaning-of-term-son-of-man.html<br /><br />Jesus the True and Proper SON of God <br />https://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2014/05/jesus-true-and-proper-son-of-god.html<br /><br />Pre-Existence of Jesus in the Synoptic Gospels <br />https://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2014/06/pre-existence-of-jesus-in-synoptic.html<br /><br />//<i>Particularly Ehrman states that John put words in Jesus mouth (I AM statements) and that Paul, Peter, and Synoptic writers thrust their later beliefs of Jesus being YHWH onto their writings. </i>//<br /><br />See my blog: <a href="https://misclane.blogspot.com/2017/01/bart-ehrmans-current-beliefs-regarding.html" rel="nofollow">Bart Ehrman's Current Beliefs Regarding Jesus and His Divinity </a> where Ehrman concedes many things in favor of traditional Christian beliefs.<br /><br />Even limiting oneself to the historical criteria of authenticity which non-Christians often go by, there's enough certain Jesus traditions that would suggest Jesus believed Himself to be divine. See, for example, the blog on the "Son of Man" I linked to above. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70yS6sxi4p4&t=2019s" rel="nofollow">See also W.L. Craig exposing Ehrman's shoddy scholarship in his use of the Criteria HERE</a>. The fact that the OT predicted a divine preexistent messiah would lend support that the NT writers weren't just inventing a divine Jesus. As would the OT's teaching of plurality in the one God. See my other blogs on the topic. <b>As well as my links to articles and MANY Videos and Debates by Anthony Rogers in this Blog.</b><br /><br />CONTINUED BELOWANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-25420821117040097012020-08-12T10:12:56.066-07:002020-08-12T10:12:56.066-07:00Hi Annoyed, I was wondering if you have seen Heise...Hi Annoyed, I was wondering if you have seen Heiser's work on the Divine Council and whether we (Trinitarians) can defend the Deity of Christ against skeptical unitarians (of the likes of Ehrman) in light of YHWH giving dominion to His Divine Council. The question mostly stemming from the self-identity of Jesus in the Synoptic Gospels.<br /><br />Particularly Ehrman states that John put words in Jesus mouth (I AM statements) and that Paul, Peter, and Synoptic writers thrust their later beliefs of Jesus being YHWH onto their writings. <br /><br />Particularly he believes that Jesus believed Himself to be a pre-existent divine being that the Father (YHWH) abdicated Lordship to. I have drawn a connection with what you stated about the Divine Council getting authority. For example defending the idea that God can only forgive sins, BUT Jesus was given this authority as a Elohim (created disembodied spiritual being). Same with being Lord of the Sabbath.<br /> Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18007580091869768426noreply@blogger.com