tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post4512571659031981503..comments2023-10-26T10:45:36.132-07:00Comments on Trinity Notes: Miscellaneous Speculative and/or Suggestive Arguments In Defense of the TrinityANNOYED PINOYhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-15411546724904215962017-06-12T10:51:45.585-07:002017-06-12T10:51:45.585-07:00You need to read my blogpost: Old Testament Passag...You need to read my blogpost: <a href="http://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2014/08/old-testament-passages-implying.html" rel="nofollow">Old Testament Passages Implying Plurality in God</a><br /><br /><a href="http://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2014/08/old-testament-passages-implying.html" rel="nofollow">http://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2014/08/old-testament-passages-implying.html</a><br /><br /><br />Here's a sample:<br /><br /><br />Anthony Rogers pointed out, "The word Elohim is used thousands of times for “God”; Adonai is used hundreds of times for “Lord”; both of these words are plural nouns in Hebrew."<br /><br /><br />Nick Norelli in his book The Defense of an Essential: A Believer’s Handbook for Defending the Trinity listed the following:<br /><br /><br />1. Plural Verbs<br /><br /><br />o Genesis 20:13<br /><br />English Translation: God caused me to wander<br /><br />Hebrew: ה התתְעוו ו אלתהים, א אלֹל ה היםם<br /><br />Literally: They caused me to wander<br /><br /><br />o Genesis 35:7<br /><br />English Translation: God appeared<br /><br />Hebrew: נהגתְלֹו ו א אלֹלָיםו לָ ה א אלֹל ה היםם<br /><br />Literally: They appeared<br /><br /><br />o 2Samuel 7:23<br /><br />English Translation: God went<br /><br />Hebrew: לָ הלֹתְכוו ו -א א אלֹל ה היםם<br /><br />Literally: They went<br /><br /><br />o Psalms 58:12<br /><br />English Translation: God that judges<br /><br />Hebrew: א אלֹל ה היםם ששלפתְ ה טיםם<br /><br />Literally: Gods that judge<br /><br /><br />2. Plural Adjectives<br /><br /><br />o Deuteronomy 5:26<br /><br />English Translation: living God<br /><br />Hebrew: א אלֹל ה היםם ח חים ה יםום<br /><br />Literally: Living Gods8<br /><br /><br />o Joshua 24:19<br /><br />English Translation: holy God<br /><br />Hebrew: א אלֹל ה היםם תְ קדֹלששהיםם<br /><br />Literally: Holy Gods<br /><br /><br />3. Plural Nouns<br /><br /><br />o Ecclesiastes 12:1<br /><br />English Translation: thy Creator<br /><br />Hebrew: בוולרתְ אֶ איםךלָ<br /><br />Literally: Creators<br /><br /><br />o Isaiah 54:5<br /><br />English Translation: For thy Maker is thy husband<br /><br />Hebrew: בל ע עולֹחיִךתְ עולששחיִךתְ<br /><br />Literally: Makers, Husbands9<br /><br /><br />o Malachi 1:6<br /><br />English Translation: Master<br /><br />Hebrew: ע אדֹולנהיםם<br /><br />Literally: Masters10<br /><br /><br />o Daniel 7:18<br /><br />English Translation: Most High<br /><br />Hebrew: אֶ עולֹתְיםולנהיםן<br /><br />Literally: Most High Ones<br /><br /><br />footnotes:<br /><br />8 See also 1Samuel 17:26, 36 & Jeremiah 10:10, 23:36 for “living Gods”<br /><br />9 See also Psalm 149:2 for “Makers”<br /><br />10 Nearly every occurrence of the noun “Lord” ( ע אדֹולנהים ) in reference to God appears in the plural form.<br /><br /><br />This excerpt from Nick's book was taken from a larger excerpt that can be downloaded HERE<br /><br /><br />As Anthony Rogers says in one of his articles:<br /><br /><br />When all is said and done, the Old Testament uses plural nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs and adjectives for God.<br /><br />Meaning, plural nouns, plural pronouns, plural verbs, plural adverbs, and plural adjectives for God.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-18167132838842135212017-06-12T10:50:26.519-07:002017-06-12T10:50:26.519-07:00It seems that our brother Steve does not post any ...<i> It seems that our brother Steve does not post any comments that do not agree with his doctrines.<br />I wonder, what is the point to have a comment section then ?</i><br /><br />He does. However, he'll sometimes block people who either persistently present bad arguments, or who repeat their comments or arguments without updating them in light of (and in response to) his comments.<br /><br /><i>The 16th century Puritans did not all agree with every doctrine, they had many big disagreements with each other, just like we have :-)</i><br /><br />Yet they were in general agreement regarding the Trinity (though, they differed on some of the finer points).<br /><br /><i>We all love our brother John Owen, but he never understood the doctrine of God, that is simply, because the Lord Jesus didn’t gave him that understanding.</i><br /><br />Have you read Owen's Vindication of the Trinity? I have. I recommend it. Though, I think some of his arguments are antiquated or outdated. For example, he'll use arguments in defense of the Trinity based on verses we now know have textual variants. So I wouldn't have used those verses to defend the doctrine of the Trinity.<br /><br /><i>No one in his right mind can say or will say that THREE persons equal ONE God. That is an oxymoron at best. </i><br /><br />No it's not. All you've done is make assertions and poison the well instead of giving good reasons or arguments for your position.<br /><br /><i>You can’t call THREE beings “HE”.</i><br /><br />Again, you misunderstand the Trinity if you think we believe three BEINGS are one. You seem to not understand what we mean by "being" or "essence" or "substance". Either that, or you're being disingenuous.<br /><br /><i>God is ONE person and He is always called “HE”.<br />THREE persons you call “THEY”.</i><br /><br />You haven't addressed my comments at Triablogue or <a href="http://trinitynotes.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-most-important-blogposts-in-this.html" rel="nofollow">on one of my other blogposts regarding the evidence for plurality in God in the OT</a>. If you persist on not addressing them, I too might be forced to block your comments.ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-50858203932818755302017-06-11T19:53:26.132-07:002017-06-11T19:53:26.132-07:00Concerning the trinity.
What would you say if I wo...Concerning the trinity.<br />What would you say if I would say that my natural father is three persons ? Well, I can imagine what you would say or think.<br /> <br />That would be exactly the same nonsense as if I would claim that God is my Father who is in heaven and He is also three persons ?<br />Remember, there is only one God and that is the Father. (1 Cor. 8:6) <br /> <br /> <br />It is so plainly obvious that God is NOT three persons in one God.<br />Trinitarians are exactly like the evolutionists, even if all evidence speaks against their theory, they wilfully believe the lie.<br />Paul Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15227545422232659930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-54566719866675031962017-06-09T02:49:34.790-07:002017-06-09T02:49:34.790-07:00Thank you A.P.for your comment. It seems that our ...Thank you A.P.for your comment. It seems that our brother Steve does not post any comments that do not agree with his doctrines. <br />I wonder, what is the point to have a comment section then ?<br /> <br />OK. I and we are not connected to the 16th century Puritans, although I and we like some of their doctrines. <br />The 16th century Puritans did not all agree with every doctrine, they had many big disagreements with each other, just like we have :-)<br /><br />I and we believe in only ONE Puritan and that is the Lord Jesus Christ, He is the PURITAN of all doctrines. Every man errs in many ways, but the Lord Jesus Christ does NOT err, He is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.<br />If we all look to Jesus and believe in Him, then we will know the truth and the truth will set us free from every error, especially the doctrine of God which I have been debating for many years with everyone who is willing to debate.<br /> <br />It seems to me that trinitarians (in general) don’t like to be confronted with that blatant nonsensical doctrine like the trinity. <br /> <br />We all love our brother John Owen, but he never understood the doctrine of God, that is simply, because the Lord Jesus didn’t gave him that understanding.<br /> <br />You see, the doctrine of God is so simple for children to understand, but the learned (the wise guys), they will never know it and neither will they believe it, the Lord Jesus Christ will not give it to them. <br />Remember, the Lord Jesus said, ‘I praise thee O Father that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and gave it to babes.’<br />When Jesus said that He has hidden these thing, that’s exactly what He means and what He did.<br /> <br />You said, “Godhead, or divine being; how, being Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, he subsists in these three distinct persons“. <br /><br />Can you see how John Owen has a preconceived assumption that God is three persons ? <br />For that reason it is important that you don’t believe John Owen. <br />It is required from you to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and NOT in man made doctrines who are nonsensical.<br /><br />Everyone who is deceived or does NOT understand the doctrine of God, but WILL invent that kind of nonsense. <br />No one in his right mind can say or will say that THREE persons equal ONE God. That is an oxymoron at best. <br />You can’t call THREE beings “HE”.<br />God is ONE person and He is always called “HE”.<br />THREE persons you call “THEY”.<br />And for that reason you need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, or else you will die in your sins (John 8:24).<br />Paul Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15227545422232659930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-49816975320687425212017-06-07T19:06:29.419-07:002017-06-07T19:06:29.419-07:00If you were to consistently employ that approach, ...If you were to consistently employ that approach, you would erase your own blog. Also, if you were consistent, you would not connect yourself to the 16th century Puritans as you do on your blog. The fact is that we are all theologians and it's natural to speak and write out our understanding of Scripture in non-Scriptural terms. <a href="http://quotesandreferences.blogspot.com/2016/09/john-owen-on-necessity-of-going-beyond.html" rel="nofollow">As John Owen stated</a>:<br /><br />In the declaration, then, of this doctrine unto the edification of the church, there is contained a farther explanation of the things before asserted, as proposed directly and in themselves as the object of our faith, — namely, how God is one, in respect of his nature, substance, essence, Godhead, or divine being; how, being Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, he subsists in these three distinct persons or hypostases; and what are their mutual respects to each other, by which, as their peculiar properties, giving them the manner of their subsistence, they are distinguished one from another; with sundry other 379things of the like necessary consequence unto the revelation mentioned. And herein, as in the application of all other divine truths and mysteries whatever, yea, of all moral commanded duties, use is to be made of such words and expressions as, it may be, are not literally and formally contained in the Scripture; but only are, unto our conceptions and apprehensions, expository of what is so contained. And to deny the liberty, yea, the necessity hereof, is to deny all interpretation of the Scripture, — all endeavours to express the sense of the words of it unto the understandings of one another; which is, in a word, to render the Scripture itself altogether useless. For if it be unlawful for me to speak or write what I conceive to be the sense of the words of the Scripture, and the nature of the thing signified and expressed by them, it is unlawful for me, also, to think or conceive in my mind what is the sense of the words or nature of the things; which to say, is to make brutes of ourselves, and to frustrate the whole design of God in giving unto us the great privilege of his word.<br /><br />- John Owen, Brief Declaration and Vindication of The Doctrine of the Trinity [<a href="http://www.ccel.org/ccel/owen/trinity.v.html" rel="nofollow">source</a>]ANNOYED PINOYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00714774340084597206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4669280389111802064.post-31843930002003771612017-06-06T17:21:34.010-07:002017-06-06T17:21:34.010-07:00Hi A.P. it’s me again Paul.
As I have said many ti...Hi A.P. it’s me again Paul.<br />As I have said many times, the trinity is NOT true. There is no such doctrine in the Bible.<br />Only some kind of self anointed theologians are able to cook up such a nonsensical doctrine as the trinity.<br />Well, I have a good suggestion my friend. <br /><br />Put the BIBLE on the table and ALL other books from every theologian, and then please keep the BIBLE and throw ALL other books in the rubbish bin.<br />Yes my friend, that’s all they are good for :-)<br /> <br />And then start afresh. <br />But this time start with the Word of God the Bible alone, don’t look to the left and don’t look to the right, only look to the Lord Jesus Christ and HE will lead you into all the truth. :-)<br />Your brother Paul.<br />Paul Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15227545422232659930noreply@blogger.com